week of November 11: Next week we will be discussing the issue of abortion. In what cases does Judith Jarvis Thomson see abortions as morally permissible? In what cases does she not find them permissible? Do you agree with her view? Why or why not?
I just want to start off by saying that I am in the middle on this subject. I believe it is a choice and people do whats right for the situation. I disagree with it though if people get pregnant over and over having abortion after abortion. I feel that Judith Jarvis Thomson had a decent argument on abortion. Rape is a great example of being morally permissible. Also, it can't be considered murder if a mother has an abortion to save her own life but, taking an innocent life is considered impermissible. There will always be an argument for both sides and the just leaves the choice of the mother.
Replying to such a controversial topic makes me nervous. I hope not to offend you in any way. With that being said I very much agree with you! I don't think this fight will ever end. The choice should be the mothers and no one elses. If there was a woman who had experienced the mortification of being raped and now has to figure out how to raise the rapists child as soley her own, then who am I to tell her she can't abort. If she were to have that baby she would have a daily reminder of what she went through, if she can get over that and raise a healthy normal child then great but if she can't then maybe abortion or adoption is the best option for her. Ultimately it's the mothers decision to decide what's best for her child.
I agree that it should be left to the mother to decide weather the child should be aborted or not if the mother has been raped or if giving birth to the child will cause her death. I would urge the mother to not abort unless completely necessary, because putting the child up for adoption is always an option, and should be considered.
I too, believe the mother has the decision to abort but only under certain circumstances like raoe, incest, or to spare the mothers life. I also think it should be carefully considered, it is not an excuse that peoole can have as much sex as they want. Spread the contraceptives and educate young teens! Weve already touched on the issue of affluence and poverty, obviously, we are making too many babies that we can not take care of. Yes, adopting is certainly a desirable option!
Thomson says that the fetus has more of a right to life than a woman does to decide what happens in her body. Abortion would be morally permissible if the woman's life is in danger carrying the fetus or it the fetus is a result of rape. I do agree with these. If you're just being careless and having unprotected sex knowing it could result in a pregnancy then I feel it is not permissible. But it is up to the woman in this situation to decide what to do. No one else should be able to make the decision for them.
Do you believe in aborting an unborn fetus? Some may argue that a fetus is a iving human being, which i think is fare to say... I agree that people just have sex and that is there excuse, to just have babies and not have to take responsibility. Yet i feel that an unborn fetus and is not missing the life he doesnt know.
I agree with you. Some people don't believe in abortion and think it should be outlawed. In all reality abortion is the woman's choice. If she can live with her situation then she has all the right to do it. I don't think that fetuss' have more to life than a woman has to decide with her own body
As a male, i have a very strong opinion on the topic of abortions. My opinion is that we collective males should just butt out of it, because really, we have no right to decide what happens to a females body. It is a decidely woman choice.
Jake, I wonder, would you feel that way if it was YOUR baby that the person was aborting? I personally believe that women have the right to do what they want with their body, I'm just wondering if you would feel the same way if it was your child being aborted.
I don't think anybody could answer a question like that unless they were actually in a situation where abortion was brought up. I think it's easier said then done.
Rape is a permissible situation for an abortion. Having an abortion so a trip abroad won't be postponed is a poor excuse to take another life. Basically Judith says that a permissible abortion is rare and hard to come by. Most of the time abortions benefit the mother and not the baby inside. What I mean by this is that if a young girl at 12 or 14 has a kid then that baby would be raised by a kid also. This is a bad situation and it would benefit the baby if it didn't grow up with horrible parents, but there is always an alternative, like adoption. Honestly I think abortion should be for extreme cases only. I believe everyone has a choice, I wouldn't do it myself , but everyone needs to decide that for themselves.
Although I agree almost completely with you I don't however think that every 12 or 14 year old should be considered "horrible" parents. Immature, yes. Too young and no where near ready, absolutely. I mean in no way to offend you. If I come off as rude I sincerely apologize. I do agree with you that young teenage children should not have kids of their own because they are simply too young mentally, physically, emotionally, and financially. I wouldn't be able to do it myself either even at my age, but someone else's decision is not mine to make. :)
I to believe that Rape and to save a mothers life be morally permissible, however I don't think a person or kids age should be a factor in this matter. I would hope her parents or the babies daddy would help in raising the child or perhaps even the possibility of adoption could be available to her. I'm a firm believer that if you do the deed then your are responsible for the outcome of the deed. I mean for heaven sakes don't they have a day after pill if your not sure as a precaution? Either way in some cases it's a terrible situation to be in and I'm glad I don't have to worry about it, tough topic to talk about.
I believe that abortion is the mothers decision. However I personally wouldn't be able to go through with it for no reason. I believe that it is justifiable is one has an abortion due to the health of the baby or mother. Also if a woman has been sexually assaulted resulting in an unwanted pregnancy then abortion would be morally okay in my eyes. Judith Thomson seems to have similar beliefs. She believes taking away a childs' life is morally wrong unless there was rape or health risks for the mother. Everything happens for a reason, including abortion.
I agree with you--to an extent. Yes abortion is ultimately the mothers decision because the fetus is growing inside her body, but what about the father? What if the father wants to keep the baby? Obviously humans are unable to reproduce on their own, so the decision should rest in both hands of the parents, not just the mother. Sex is for reproduction. If you are mature enough to have sex, you are mature enough to have and raise a baby, even if you don't want it. And yes everything does happen for a reason, but that doesn't mean we need to go around killing innocent lives. The lives that were obviously created out of carelessness. That's definitely not the baby's fault...
I think you took that the wrong way. I believe in mother's having an abortion if its due to health reasons or a result of rape. I never once meant that abortion should happen for no reason or one's carelessness. The answer to your question about the father is this, if he is the father because he is the rapist then who cares what that waste of life wants. However if it were a happy couple that very much wanted the baby but had to unexpectedly abort so the mother could stay alive then yes that would be a very hard tragic decision but hopefully the father would want the mother of his child to stay alive as well. Sex is absolutely for reproduction but for humans and dolphins it is actually also used for personal satisfaction. I think children these days are making careless decisions such as having sex before they are ready to take the responsibility of raising a child while being a child.
I don't support abortion, but I disagree that saving the woman's life would result in taking the baby's life. It is not a baby just a flesh group of tissues. It is not a human being. I don't think women should kill this fleshy patch of tissues, but it is America and they do have a choice to make.
I think it is fine line between what someone else thinks you should do and how you feel about having a child. It is a lot of responsibility after having a child. It sounds easier then what it really is. No one is truely ready to be a parent until it has actually happened.
Thomson says the fetus has every right to live as does the mother. The only permissible way to have an abortion according to Thomson is if the fetus poses as a danger to the mother or if the mother was raped. She doesn't feel as if having a abortion is okay as long and the mother knew and accepted what was happening when she chose to be sexually active. I completely agree with Thomson on these because if you knew you were going to be sexual active you either need to be on birth contraceptives or remain abstinent. The mother knows exactly what comes out of being sexual actives. It is part of your responsibility to make sure you don't become pregnant or to take care of the baby you created. However, if the baby does pose as a threat to the mothers life I think it is okay to terminate the pregnancy, as much as it would hurt to let your baby die.
I completely agree with both you and Thompson! If you are old and mature enough to have sex, then you are old and mature enough to have a baby. As I stated in my post, sex is great and all, but the overall purpose of it is to reproduce. Who are we to decide if another being can't or shouldn't be able to fulfill a lifetime?
Judith Jarvis Thompson thinks the exact same thing about this particular issue that I do. Life is precious, so who are we to take it away from someone else? Even if that someone else is only just a few weeks old? A person is a person. If you are mature enough to have sex, then you are mature enough to deal with the consequences of having sex. Sex is fun and all, but it's designed to reproduce and make babies. A baby is the result of intercourse. Since the baby is the result, than one should not be able to simply take the easy way off and murder it. That's considered breaking the 6th commandment. With that being said, both Judith and I concur that if a mother's life is in jeopardy because of complications due to birth, then that would be a permissible reason to abort the baby. In Judith's eyes, another permissible reason would be if a woman got raped. I am on the ledge on this one, because it is still murder no matter if you agreed to the sex or not. It's the baby's life, not the mothers.
Judith Jarvis Thompson believes that the only circumstances in which it is permissible for a mother to have an abortion would be if the mother were raped or if carry the baby to term would threaten the mother's life. Abortion is a touchy and complex subject. At what point do we consider the fetus a human life? Religion says that at the moment of conception it is considered human life but at that stage isn't the fetus just a lump of cells with no cognitive thought? I agree with the opinion that the life of a child shouldn't be extinguished just because you were careless. As an adult we are all aware of the risk of pregnancy when having sex and abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. However, what qualifies as human life or as an actual child is where my opinion differs from that of Christian religion. I also do not feel that I have the right to make this type of decision for another person.
I agree that termination isn't okay if the person is careless about their sexual encounters, or if the person has had multiple abortions. Abortion should never be a form of birth control. I like how you bring up religion in this as well. I agree that it shouldn't be anyone else's decision beside the person who is in the situation.
I don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control either. If it is something that keeps reoccurring I think that is wrong. As adults we all know the risks of pregnancy, but if it happens anyway, I think it is up to the mother to decide. Religion seems to have a huge impact on this subject and a huge impact of how people handle it or look at it.
Judith says that abortion is only ok if the mother were raped or could face life threatening complications while being pregnant. I agree with her because if being pregnant could effect the mother then it is very possible that the baby would not be getting the right nutrition and in the end it could result in the passing of the mother and the baby/fetus. If a mother is pregnant as a result of rape I think it is ok to have an abortion because rape can not only cause physical problems but mental problems and the mother may not be able to care for her child like she should be able to because of how dramatically her life was altered by being raped. However, if the mother who was a victim of rape feels comfortable carrying the baby full term and putting it up for adoption I would much rather see that happen. Babies do not deserve to have their lives taken from them especially being innocent and having done nothing wrong but it would be better off doing so if the child would not get the proper care and would end up living a miserable life and possibly dying because it was so miserable and after living a life and other people having some type of attachment to the child, good or bad, the childs passing would be more significant so, if you cant care for young after they are born and wont put them up for adoption or find them a good place to be I think abortion would be the better answer.
Judith Jarvis Thomson believes that an abortion is only accepted in two situations, one, if the pregnancy was the result of rape, and two, if the life of the mother would be in jeapordy if she continued the pregnancy. I know abortion is a very hot button arguement at the moment and people feel strongly one way or the other. Although the two instance that Thomson accepts are very good reasons to have an abortion, I feel like there are others. One for example would be teenage pregnacy, when the would be mother is not ready financially or on grounds of maturity, to have a baby. Another reason for abortion could be strictly financial. What if a couple knows they are in no financial state to support a child? If a couple doesn't have the money to give a child a good life thats not fair to the child. On the other hand I can see the other side of the argument where responsibilty comes in, and where people should think about their actions and what consequences will follow. But strictly answering the question that was asked, I don't agree 100 percent with Thomson's view.
I agree that there are other situations besides the ones Thomson gives. There are many different reasons someone might want or need to have an abortion. I can agree that it may not be in the baby's best interest if there is only a single parent, financial issues, or age but then there's the responsibility factor. If a person knows they're not ready, why was there not precautions?
I definitely agree that there are other situations that you have to consider, especially maturity level and financial situation. However, I don't think that abortion should be the only thing looked at in some situations. In the case of teen pregnancy the girl could put the baby up for adoption. If people are financially strapped they could take advantage of free clinics or government assistance until they are stable or until they have the child and give it up for adoption. I agree 100% that if you don't have the resources to raise a child then that is unfair to that child.
For me this is an extremely touchy topic, but I guess if it comes right down to it a woman has rights that should never be impeded upon. Even though it happens for women to get pregnant and have abortions, I would think if it was a common occurrence they would find a better contraceptive or practice more celibacy until ready to start a family. I do believe Judith Jarvis Thomson belief that abortion for women that have been raped or where it is necessary to save her life be morally permissible. However I’m sure there are other situations where abortion is perhaps the only option but by far this should be the last option looked at.
I agree if it starts to become a common occurrence then the person should maybe refrain for awhile or use a better contraceptive. I also feel that this is a touchy subject, but at the same time I don't think it should be. It is ultimately up to the mother to decide what to do, I don't really understand why people feel the need to have an opinion about it, when it has nothing to do with them.
Thomson believes that it is morally permissible for a woman to get an abortion if she has been raped or her life is in danger but not permissible if the pregnancy is unexpected or gets in the way of things. I agree with Thomson. If a woman is raped or her life is threatened by carrying the fetus, she has every right to decide what happens next. If a woman feels that the baby/pregnancy would be a constant reminder to her rape then she should be allowed to get an abortion. Another reason I think it's permissible to have an abortion from rape is because the child created could inherit the personality or mentality of the rapist, no matter how well the mother might raise the child. However, if the woman's mental health is sound and she is okay with it, I would much rather see the baby get carried to term and then given up for adoption. I also agree with Thomson that it is not morally permissible to abort if the pregnancy is unexpected or merely interferes with plans. If you are engaging in unprotected sex you should know the risks you are taking. If the condom breaks and you don't want to get pregnant then get the morning after pill. Getting an abortion just because is just plain wrong and disturbing in my view.
When it comes to the topic of abortion, i am a bit wishy washy. I believe that abortion is wrong. I also believe it is permissible to abort a baby in case of rape and incest. I also believe abortion is permissible, if it meant sparing the mothers life.
I agree with you, because I feel like a child should have both of their parents around to teach them about life, and pass on their wisdom. If a child were to lose its mother, it would lose out on 1/2 of the knowledge, and wisdom that they could get. I can also say that as a male, I feel like it isn't possible to be as close to any kid I may have than their mother because of the pregnancy period. I think it gives them a stronger connection and more love.
Judith Jarvis Thomson believes that abortion is morally permissible if the mother's life were in danger or if a woman was raped. I agree. It would be very hard for me personally to have one, but if a pregnancy is/is going to kill the mother, she should be able to have an abortion if she needed to. Being raped would be hard enough, but to add a pregnancy in there would make it even worse. That's supposed to be one of the best memories for a woman. How could she enjoy something that would remind her of her worst nightmare everyday?
I, too, agree that abortion is morally permissible if the mother's life is threatened by the pregnancy. I have seen a lot of health shows where women have had to get an abortion because the fetus is literally killing them or the fetus isn't getting all the nutrition from the mother for some reason. Though it would be hard for me to do, if I were in that situation I would probably have an abortion too. I also agree that abortion from rape is morally permissible. I don't think I could go through with a pregnancy if I were raped because it would constantly remind me. It's just like you said, pregnancy is supposed to be an exciting time for a woman, so how could a raped woman enjoy that experience?
Thomson says that abortion is only morally allowable if the mother has been raped or would die if the child were to be born. I think that the only time a child should be aborted is if the mother would die, and then it would be her choice. I believe that adoption isn't considered by people as often as abortion is. I feel like putting a child that the mother doesn't want up for adoption is better than aborting it. There might be a family that can't conceive a child and would love to adopt, and they might be some of your family or friends.
I agree, that people don't think of adoption as much. Unfortunately, in this case for adoption BOTH parents are needed to give up the child after birth. Some women abort babies they have because they don't want anything to do with the child's father. If the baby is a live, the father has the ability to say no to adoption.
Thomson believes that the only way an abortion is morally permissible is in the case of rape or if the mother's life is in danger from the pregnancy. I definitely agree with both of these. But I also think that if the mother decides to abort the baby for her own reasons, that is fine. I would rather see a woman have an abortion then take on a kid that she has no intention of raising properly. I don't agree with it becoming a regular thing, it shouldn't be taken advantage of. But if it is an accident or a mistake, I think it is ultimately the mothers decision on what to do.
I don't agree that it is only the mothers decision. It wasn't only the mother that created the child. I think if you have a guy that has agreed to support a future mom that it could be worth keeping the baby. It is not easy to decide what to do but if both parents agree to raise the child together then there is no reason to abort that child.
What if the guy backs out of the picture when the baby is here? I think it is more of the mother's choice because it is the mother's body that is carrying the child. If the guy decides he doesn't want a kid when it actually gets here then what? Also, if it could harm the mother it would ultimately be the mother's choice. I also see what you mean by having BOTH parents decide. It is a very touchy subject.
Abortion is morally permissable according to Thomson. She argues in almost every case that abortion is at least justifiable, except at the end when she talks about Minimal Decent Samaritanism. Talking about how it would be indecent to perform an abortion on someone seven months pregnant just so they wouldn't have to postpone a trip abroad. I personally can't have an opinion on the matter, or shouldn't have an opinion. I believe i have no right to this argument, being a male. It's the woman's choice on this topic that matters, not mine.
I think it is interesting that you feel like you don't have an opinion on this topic, and I agree with you in some ways because you aren't the one that would be actually aborting the child. I commented on someone elses response to this that you commented on but again, if the baby was your child would you feel the same way? You have a right over that child as well, and yet, the mother can just walk into an abortion clinic and get it done without you even knowing about it. Like I said before, I believe that a woman has the overall right, I just wonder how you think from that perspective.
I agree with Jake. I've always felt that while it is messed up that I couldn't have any say in an abortion of my own child, that I would have to be neutral in pretty much any situation. If I were to make a choice that could lead to a child then I made a choice that could lead to an abortion as well. It might be a tough pill to swallow but if someone is getting an abortion then there's probably a pretty well thought out reason and I'm not going to be the one to potentially drastically change someone's life for my own benefit.
Judith Jarvis Thomson stating that although the fetus has a right to life but it can morally permissible due to a woman's right to have a reason to live, integrity, and privacy. Another word, an unborn person has a right to the mother's body only if the pregnancy resulted from her voluntary act. A voluntary act is an informed act. The women must have consented to the act that resulted in pregnancy, and must have done so in full knowledge of the chance of pregnancy. I personally don't agree with Thomson's argument. I know that abortion is an extremely complex and highly debated public issue in the American social and political arena in the late twentieth century. People on both sides of the debate present strong arguments that establish valid points. Society clearly states that child abuse and the murder of one's child is illegal, but does allow abortion.
Thomson states that abortion is morally permissible in a few scenarios, if the child is going to cause the mother harm or death, or in the case of rape. This is a really touchy topic for me for multiple reasons, but in the end I don't feel like I have the right to tell anyone what they should do with their body. It's like if someone created a garden but didn't want the flower that was growing because they planted the wrong seed, so they decide to pull it out of the ground. I do agree with Thomson that it is morally permissible to abort the child in the case of rape or in the case of harm to the mother, however, I feel like there are more scenarios besides that one. For instance, a wife is abused by her husband and made to have a child. Also, a teenager who isn't informed or parents don't let them have birth control.
Thomson says that abortion is morally permissible in two situations; the first is she can have an abortion if she will be harmed by having the child and the second is if she is raped. I agree with her view on this but I also believe that if a women isn't fit to be a mother then she should have to make a choice whether to keep the child or to abort it. My thinking totally goes against my religion, but I know that if I got pregnant I wouldn't be ready in my life for a child. I would probably put it up for adoption or have an abortion. I feel like a terrible person when I think about it, but I honestly am not in a point in my life where I want a child and have things I want to accomplish before I have my first child.
Thompson had some good ideas saying that abortion is acceptable when it puts the mothers life in danger or when the child is a product of rape. While I agree with this I feel that it's really not anyone but the mothers choice to have an abortion. If someone were to get an abortion so she could go on vacation then I could only assume that they wouldn't be the best parent. Now its true that the child could be put up for adoption but not a lot of people consider that.
Judith Thomson and I agree that abortion is morally permissible if the mothers life is in danger, or if the pregnancy is the result of being raped. I also believe in womens rights and for that reason I dont have an opinion about whether a mother should or should not keep her child but if it were my choice and the child was mine i would keep that baby. In any other situation i believe its 100% the mothers choice.
Judith Thompson says that abortion is permissible if the baby is a product of unwanted sex, or if the life of the mother is in danger. I believe that it is wrong to take the life of an unborn child. I agree with Don Marquis that 14 days might be a tolerable amount of time, but no matter my personal views I believe overall the choice needs to belong to the parents (yes plural because the baby is a creation of not one, but two parents). And yes I know that it would be nearly impossible for two different people to always agree on a decision. I would like to hope that other's would believe that it is wrong to kill an unborn child, however we all have the power to choose and nobody should be allowed to take that away from us.
This is an extremely hard topic to cover mainly because of the right to life issue that goes hand and hand with it, however when you get down to it, it’s ultimately the woman’s decision. Thomson believes that abortion is morally permissible, at least in some cases where an abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother and some cases where pregnancy stems from rape. I also think Thomson believes the fetus is a person and every person has a right to life, therefore, the fetus has a right to life. The mother has a right to decide what happens in and to her body, but the fetus's right to life outweighs the mother’s right to decide what happens in and to her body. Therefore, the fetus may not be killed; an abortion may not be performed. I think I would have to agree with Thomson on this matter even though it’s a touchy subject, but it is up to the woman in the end.
I just want to start off by saying that I am in the middle on this subject. I believe it is a choice and people do whats right for the situation. I disagree with it though if people get pregnant over and over having abortion after abortion. I feel that Judith Jarvis Thomson had a decent argument on abortion. Rape is a great example of being morally permissible. Also, it can't be considered murder if a mother has an abortion to save her own life but, taking an innocent life is considered impermissible. There will always be an argument for both sides and the just leaves the choice of the mother.
ReplyDeleteReplying to such a controversial topic makes me nervous. I hope not to offend you in any way. With that being said I very much agree with you! I don't think this fight will ever end. The choice should be the mothers and no one elses. If there was a woman who had experienced the mortification of being raped and now has to figure out how to raise the rapists child as soley her own, then who am I to tell her she can't abort. If she were to have that baby she would have a daily reminder of what she went through, if she can get over that and raise a healthy normal child then great but if she can't then maybe abortion or adoption is the best option for her. Ultimately it's the mothers decision to decide what's best for her child.
DeleteI agree that it should be left to the mother to decide weather the child should be aborted or not if the mother has been raped or if giving birth to the child will cause her death. I would urge the mother to not abort unless completely necessary, because putting the child up for adoption is always an option, and should be considered.
DeleteI too, believe the mother has the decision to abort but only under certain circumstances like raoe, incest, or to spare the mothers life. I also think it should be carefully considered, it is not an excuse that peoole can have as much sex as they want. Spread the contraceptives and educate young teens! Weve already touched on the issue of affluence and poverty, obviously, we are making too many babies that we can not take care of. Yes, adopting is certainly a desirable option!
DeleteThomson says that the fetus has more of a right to life than a woman does to decide what happens in her body. Abortion would be morally permissible if the woman's life is in danger carrying the fetus or it the fetus is a result of rape. I do agree with these. If you're just being careless and having unprotected sex knowing it could result in a pregnancy then I feel it is not permissible. But it is up to the woman in this situation to decide what to do. No one else should be able to make the decision for them.
ReplyDeleteDo you believe in aborting an unborn fetus? Some may argue that a fetus is a iving human being, which i think is fare to say... I agree that people just have sex and that is there excuse, to just have babies and not have to take responsibility. Yet i feel that an unborn fetus and is not missing the life he doesnt know.
DeleteI agree with you. Some people don't believe in abortion and think it should be outlawed. In all reality abortion is the woman's choice. If she can live with her situation then she has all the right to do it. I don't think that fetuss' have more to life than a woman has to decide with her own body
DeleteAs a male, i have a very strong opinion on the topic of abortions. My opinion is that we collective males should just butt out of it, because really, we have no right to decide what happens to a females body. It is a decidely woman choice.
DeleteJake, I wonder, would you feel that way if it was YOUR baby that the person was aborting? I personally believe that women have the right to do what they want with their body, I'm just wondering if you would feel the same way if it was your child being aborted.
DeleteI don't think anybody could answer a question like that unless they were actually in a situation where abortion was brought up. I think it's easier said then done.
DeleteRape is a permissible situation for an abortion. Having an abortion so a trip abroad won't be postponed is a poor excuse to take another life. Basically Judith says that a permissible abortion is rare and hard to come by. Most of the time abortions benefit the mother and not the baby inside. What I mean by this is that if a young girl at 12 or 14 has a kid then that baby would be raised by a kid also. This is a bad situation and it would benefit the baby if it didn't grow up with horrible parents, but there is always an alternative, like adoption. Honestly I think abortion should be for extreme cases only. I believe everyone has a choice, I wouldn't do it myself , but everyone needs to decide that for themselves.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I agree almost completely with you I don't however think that every 12 or 14 year old should be considered "horrible" parents. Immature, yes. Too young and no where near ready, absolutely. I mean in no way to offend you. If I come off as rude I sincerely apologize. I do agree with you that young teenage children should not have kids of their own because they are simply too young mentally, physically, emotionally, and financially. I wouldn't be able to do it myself either even at my age, but someone else's decision is not mine to make.
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I to believe that Rape and to save a mothers life be morally permissible, however I don't think a person or kids age should be a factor in this matter. I would hope her parents or the babies daddy would help in raising the child or perhaps even the possibility of adoption could be available to her. I'm a firm believer that if you do the deed then your are responsible for the outcome of the deed. I mean for heaven sakes don't they have a day after pill if your not sure as a precaution? Either way in some cases it's a terrible situation to be in and I'm glad I don't have to worry about it, tough topic to talk about.
DeleteI believe that abortion is the mothers decision. However I personally wouldn't be able to go through with it for no reason. I believe that it is justifiable is one has an abortion due to the health of the baby or mother. Also if a woman has been sexually assaulted resulting in an unwanted pregnancy then abortion would be morally okay in my eyes. Judith Thomson seems to have similar beliefs. She believes taking away a childs' life is morally wrong unless there was rape or health risks for the mother. Everything happens for a reason, including abortion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you--to an extent. Yes abortion is ultimately the mothers decision because the fetus is growing inside her body, but what about the father? What if the father wants to keep the baby? Obviously humans are unable to reproduce on their own, so the decision should rest in both hands of the parents, not just the mother. Sex is for reproduction. If you are mature enough to have sex, you are mature enough to have and raise a baby, even if you don't want it. And yes everything does happen for a reason, but that doesn't mean we need to go around killing innocent lives. The lives that were obviously created out of carelessness. That's definitely not the baby's fault...
DeleteI think you took that the wrong way. I believe in mother's having an abortion if its due to health reasons or a result of rape. I never once meant that abortion should happen for no reason or one's carelessness. The answer to your question about the father is this, if he is the father because he is the rapist then who cares what that waste of life wants. However if it were a happy couple that very much wanted the baby but had to unexpectedly abort so the mother could stay alive then yes that would be a very hard tragic decision but hopefully the father would want the mother of his child to stay alive as well. Sex is absolutely for reproduction but for humans and dolphins it is actually also used for personal satisfaction. I think children these days are making careless decisions such as having sex before they are ready to take the responsibility of raising a child while being a child.
DeleteI don't support abortion, but I disagree that saving the woman's life would result in taking the baby's life. It is not a baby just a flesh group of tissues. It is not a human being. I don't think women should kill this fleshy patch of tissues, but it is America and they do have a choice to make.
DeleteI think it is fine line between what someone else thinks you should do and how you feel about having a child. It is a lot of responsibility after having a child. It sounds easier then what it really is. No one is truely ready to be a parent until it has actually happened.
DeleteThomson says the fetus has every right to live as does the mother. The only permissible way to have an abortion according to Thomson is if the fetus poses as a danger to the mother or if the mother was raped. She doesn't feel as if having a abortion is okay as long and the mother knew and accepted what was happening when she chose to be sexually active. I completely agree with Thomson on these because if you knew you were going to be sexual active you either need to be on birth contraceptives or remain abstinent. The mother knows exactly what comes out of being sexual actives. It is part of your responsibility to make sure you don't become pregnant or to take care of the baby you created. However, if the baby does pose as a threat to the mothers life I think it is okay to terminate the pregnancy, as much as it would hurt to let your baby die.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with both you and Thompson! If you are old and mature enough to have sex, then you are old and mature enough to have a baby. As I stated in my post, sex is great and all, but the overall purpose of it is to reproduce. Who are we to decide if another being can't or shouldn't be able to fulfill a lifetime?
DeleteJudith Jarvis Thompson thinks the exact same thing about this particular issue that I do. Life is precious, so who are we to take it away from someone else? Even if that someone else is only just a few weeks old? A person is a person. If you are mature enough to have sex, then you are mature enough to deal with the consequences of having sex. Sex is fun and all, but it's designed to reproduce and make babies. A baby is the result of intercourse. Since the baby is the result, than one should not be able to simply take the easy way off and murder it. That's considered breaking the 6th commandment. With that being said, both Judith and I concur that if a mother's life is in jeopardy because of complications due to birth, then that would be a permissible reason to abort the baby. In Judith's eyes, another permissible reason would be if a woman got raped. I am on the ledge on this one, because it is still murder no matter if you agreed to the sex or not. It's the baby's life, not the mothers.
ReplyDeleteJudith Jarvis Thompson believes that the only circumstances in which it is permissible for a mother to have an abortion would be if the mother were raped or if carry the baby to term would threaten the mother's life. Abortion is a touchy and complex subject. At what point do we consider the fetus a human life? Religion says that at the moment of conception it is considered human life but at that stage isn't the fetus just a lump of cells with no cognitive thought? I agree with the opinion that the life of a child shouldn't be extinguished just because you were careless. As an adult we are all aware of the risk of pregnancy when having sex and abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. However, what qualifies as human life or as an actual child is where my opinion differs from that of Christian religion. I also do not feel that I have the right to make this type of decision for another person.
ReplyDeleteI agree that termination isn't okay if the person is careless about their sexual encounters, or if the person has had multiple abortions. Abortion should never be a form of birth control. I like how you bring up religion in this as well. I agree that it shouldn't be anyone else's decision beside the person who is in the situation.
DeleteI don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control either. If it is something that keeps reoccurring I think that is wrong. As adults we all know the risks of pregnancy, but if it happens anyway, I think it is up to the mother to decide. Religion seems to have a huge impact on this subject and a huge impact of how people handle it or look at it.
DeleteJudith says that abortion is only ok if the mother were raped or could face life threatening complications while being pregnant. I agree with her because if being pregnant could effect the mother then it is very possible that the baby would not be getting the right nutrition and in the end it could result in the passing of the mother and the baby/fetus. If a mother is pregnant as a result of rape I think it is ok to have an abortion because rape can not only cause physical problems but mental problems and the mother may not be able to care for her child like she should be able to because of how dramatically her life was altered by being raped. However, if the mother who was a victim of rape feels comfortable carrying the baby full term and putting it up for adoption I would much rather see that happen. Babies do not deserve to have their lives taken from them especially being innocent and having done nothing wrong but it would be better off doing so if the child would not get the proper care and would end up living a miserable life and possibly dying because it was so miserable and after living a life and other people having some type of attachment to the child, good or bad, the childs passing would be more significant so, if you cant care for young after they are born and wont put them up for adoption or find them a good place to be I think abortion would be the better answer.
ReplyDeleteJudith Jarvis Thomson believes that an abortion is only accepted in two situations, one, if the pregnancy was the result of rape, and two, if the life of the mother would be in jeapordy if she continued the pregnancy. I know abortion is a very hot button arguement at the moment and people feel strongly one way or the other. Although the two instance that Thomson accepts are very good reasons to have an abortion, I feel like there are others. One for example would be teenage pregnacy, when the would be mother is not ready financially or on grounds of maturity, to have a baby. Another reason for abortion could be strictly financial. What if a couple knows they are in no financial state to support a child? If a couple doesn't have the money to give a child a good life thats not fair to the child. On the other hand I can see the other side of the argument where responsibilty comes in, and where people should think about their actions and what consequences will follow. But strictly answering the question that was asked, I don't agree 100 percent with Thomson's view.
ReplyDeleteI agree that there are other situations besides the ones Thomson gives. There are many different reasons someone might want or need to have an abortion. I can agree that it may not be in the baby's best interest if there is only a single parent, financial issues, or age but then there's the responsibility factor. If a person knows they're not ready, why was there not precautions?
DeleteI definitely agree that there are other situations that you have to consider, especially maturity level and financial situation. However, I don't think that abortion should be the only thing looked at in some situations. In the case of teen pregnancy the girl could put the baby up for adoption. If people are financially strapped they could take advantage of free clinics or government assistance until they are stable or until they have the child and give it up for adoption. I agree 100% that if you don't have the resources to raise a child then that is unfair to that child.
DeleteFor me this is an extremely touchy topic, but I guess if it comes right down to it a woman has rights that should never be impeded upon. Even though it happens for women to get pregnant and have abortions, I would think if it was a common occurrence they would find a better contraceptive or practice more celibacy until ready to start a family. I do believe Judith Jarvis Thomson belief that abortion for women that have been raped or where it is necessary to save her life be morally permissible. However I’m sure there are other situations where abortion is perhaps the only option but by far this should be the last option looked at.
ReplyDeleteI agree if it starts to become a common occurrence then the person should maybe refrain for awhile or use a better contraceptive. I also feel that this is a touchy subject, but at the same time I don't think it should be. It is ultimately up to the mother to decide what to do, I don't really understand why people feel the need to have an opinion about it, when it has nothing to do with them.
DeleteThomson believes that it is morally permissible for a woman to get an abortion if she has been raped or her life is in danger but not permissible if the pregnancy is unexpected or gets in the way of things. I agree with Thomson. If a woman is raped or her life is threatened by carrying the fetus, she has every right to decide what happens next. If a woman feels that the baby/pregnancy would be a constant reminder to her rape then she should be allowed to get an abortion. Another reason I think it's permissible to have an abortion from rape is because the child created could inherit the personality or mentality of the rapist, no matter how well the mother might raise the child. However, if the woman's mental health is sound and she is okay with it, I would much rather see the baby get carried to term and then given up for adoption. I also agree with Thomson that it is not morally permissible to abort if the pregnancy is unexpected or merely interferes with plans. If you are engaging in unprotected sex you should know the risks you are taking. If the condom breaks and you don't want to get pregnant then get the morning after pill. Getting an abortion just because is just plain wrong and disturbing in my view.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the topic of abortion, i am a bit wishy washy. I believe that abortion is wrong. I also believe it is permissible to abort a baby in case of rape and incest. I also believe abortion is permissible, if it meant sparing the mothers life.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, because I feel like a child should have both of their parents around to teach them about life, and pass on their wisdom. If a child were to lose its mother, it would lose out on 1/2 of the knowledge, and wisdom that they could get.
DeleteI can also say that as a male, I feel like it isn't possible to be as close to any kid I may have than their mother because of the pregnancy period. I think it gives them a stronger connection and more love.
Judith Jarvis Thomson believes that abortion is morally permissible if the mother's life were in danger or if a woman was raped. I agree. It would be very hard for me personally to have one, but if a pregnancy is/is going to kill the mother, she should be able to have an abortion if she needed to. Being raped would be hard enough, but to add a pregnancy in there would make it even worse. That's supposed to be one of the best memories for a woman. How could she enjoy something that would remind her of her worst nightmare everyday?
ReplyDeleteI, too, agree that abortion is morally permissible if the mother's life is threatened by the pregnancy. I have seen a lot of health shows where women have had to get an abortion because the fetus is literally killing them or the fetus isn't getting all the nutrition from the mother for some reason. Though it would be hard for me to do, if I were in that situation I would probably have an abortion too. I also agree that abortion from rape is morally permissible. I don't think I could go through with a pregnancy if I were raped because it would constantly remind me. It's just like you said, pregnancy is supposed to be an exciting time for a woman, so how could a raped woman enjoy that experience?
DeleteThomson says that abortion is only morally allowable if the mother has been raped or would die if the child were to be born. I think that the only time a child should be aborted is if the mother would die, and then it would be her choice. I believe that adoption isn't considered by people as often as abortion is. I feel like putting a child that the mother doesn't want up for adoption is better than aborting it. There might be a family that can't conceive a child and would love to adopt, and they might be some of your family or friends.
ReplyDeleteI agree, that people don't think of adoption as much. Unfortunately, in this case for adoption BOTH parents are needed to give up the child after birth. Some women abort babies they have because they don't want anything to do with the child's father. If the baby is a live, the father has the ability to say no to adoption.
DeleteThomson believes that the only way an abortion is morally permissible is in the case of rape or if the mother's life is in danger from the pregnancy. I definitely agree with both of these. But I also think that if the mother decides to abort the baby for her own reasons, that is fine. I would rather see a woman have an abortion then take on a kid that she has no intention of raising properly. I don't agree with it becoming a regular thing, it shouldn't be taken advantage of. But if it is an accident or a mistake, I think it is ultimately the mothers decision on what to do.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree that it is only the mothers decision. It wasn't only the mother that created the child. I think if you have a guy that has agreed to support a future mom that it could be worth keeping the baby. It is not easy to decide what to do but if both parents agree to raise the child together then there is no reason to abort that child.
DeleteWhat if the guy backs out of the picture when the baby is here? I think it is more of the mother's choice because it is the mother's body that is carrying the child. If the guy decides he doesn't want a kid when it actually gets here then what? Also, if it could harm the mother it would ultimately be the mother's choice. I also see what you mean by having BOTH parents decide. It is a very touchy subject.
DeleteAbortion is morally permissable according to Thomson. She argues in almost every case that abortion is at least justifiable, except at the end when she talks about Minimal Decent Samaritanism. Talking about how it would be indecent to perform an abortion on someone seven months pregnant just so they wouldn't have to postpone a trip abroad. I personally can't have an opinion on the matter, or shouldn't have an opinion. I believe i have no right to this argument, being a male. It's the woman's choice on this topic that matters, not mine.
ReplyDeleteI think it is interesting that you feel like you don't have an opinion on this topic, and I agree with you in some ways because you aren't the one that would be actually aborting the child. I commented on someone elses response to this that you commented on but again, if the baby was your child would you feel the same way? You have a right over that child as well, and yet, the mother can just walk into an abortion clinic and get it done without you even knowing about it. Like I said before, I believe that a woman has the overall right, I just wonder how you think from that perspective.
DeleteI agree with Jake. I've always felt that while it is messed up that I couldn't have any say in an abortion of my own child, that I would have to be neutral in pretty much any situation. If I were to make a choice that could lead to a child then I made a choice that could lead to an abortion as well. It might be a tough pill to swallow but if someone is getting an abortion then there's probably a pretty well thought out reason and I'm not going to be the one to potentially drastically change someone's life for my own benefit.
DeleteJudith Jarvis Thomson stating that although the fetus has a right to life but it can morally permissible due to a woman's right to have a reason to live, integrity, and privacy. Another word, an unborn person has a right to the mother's body only if the pregnancy resulted from her voluntary act. A voluntary act is an informed act. The women must have consented to the act that resulted in pregnancy, and must have done so in full knowledge of the chance of pregnancy. I personally don't agree with Thomson's argument. I know that abortion is an extremely complex and highly debated public issue in the American social and political arena in the late twentieth century. People on both sides of the debate present strong arguments that establish valid points. Society clearly states that child abuse and the murder of one's child is illegal, but does allow abortion.
ReplyDeleteThomson states that abortion is morally permissible in a few scenarios, if the child is going to cause the mother harm or death, or in the case of rape. This is a really touchy topic for me for multiple reasons, but in the end I don't feel like I have the right to tell anyone what they should do with their body. It's like if someone created a garden but didn't want the flower that was growing because they planted the wrong seed, so they decide to pull it out of the ground. I do agree with Thomson that it is morally permissible to abort the child in the case of rape or in the case of harm to the mother, however, I feel like there are more scenarios besides that one. For instance, a wife is abused by her husband and made to have a child. Also, a teenager who isn't informed or parents don't let them have birth control.
ReplyDeleteThomson says that abortion is morally permissible in two situations; the first is she can have an abortion if she will be harmed by having the child and the second is if she is raped. I agree with her view on this but I also believe that if a women isn't fit to be a mother then she should have to make a choice whether to keep the child or to abort it. My thinking totally goes against my religion, but I know that if I got pregnant I wouldn't be ready in my life for a child. I would probably put it up for adoption or have an abortion. I feel like a terrible person when I think about it, but I honestly am not in a point in my life where I want a child and have things I want to accomplish before I have my first child.
ReplyDeleteThompson had some good ideas saying that abortion is acceptable when it puts the mothers life in danger or when the child is a product of rape. While I agree with this I feel that it's really not anyone but the mothers choice to have an abortion. If someone were to get an abortion so she could go on vacation then I could only assume that they wouldn't be the best parent. Now its true that the child could be put up for adoption but not a lot of people consider that.
ReplyDeleteJudith Thomson and I agree that abortion is morally permissible if the mothers life is in danger, or if the pregnancy is the result of being raped. I also believe in womens rights and for that reason I dont have an opinion about whether a mother should or should not keep her child but if it were my choice and the child was mine i would keep that baby. In any other situation i believe its 100% the mothers choice.
ReplyDeleteJudith Thompson says that abortion is permissible if the baby is a product of unwanted sex, or if the life of the mother is in danger. I believe that it is wrong to take the life of an unborn child. I agree with Don Marquis that 14 days might be a tolerable amount of time, but no matter my personal views I believe overall the choice needs to belong to the parents (yes plural because the baby is a creation of not one, but two parents). And yes I know that it would be nearly impossible for two different people to always agree on a decision. I would like to hope that other's would believe that it is wrong to kill an unborn child, however we all have the power to choose and nobody should be allowed to take that away from us.
ReplyDeleteThis is an extremely hard topic to cover mainly because of the right to life issue that goes hand and hand with it, however when you get down to it, it’s ultimately the woman’s decision. Thomson believes that abortion is morally permissible, at least in some cases where an abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother and some cases where pregnancy stems from rape. I also think Thomson believes the fetus is a person and every person has a right to life, therefore, the fetus has a right to life. The mother has a right to decide what happens in and to her body, but the fetus's right to life outweighs the mother’s right to decide what happens in and to her body. Therefore, the fetus may not be killed; an abortion may not be performed. I think I would have to agree with Thomson on this matter even though it’s a touchy subject, but it is up to the woman in the end.
ReplyDelete